Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

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Stefan Andrzejewski
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Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Stefan Andrzejewski »

The yard uses two Class 33 Diesels to shunt the ore carriages too and from the Ore harbour and Saldanha Steel. Each section is 115 wagons long plus two flat beds. Its amazing to see these old Loco's still in use and powering such a heavy load. Each 33 has two flat bed coaches in front of the ore wagons. A Shunter explained that is was to absorb the shock as they have to shunt these wagons hard. This does not make sense to me. If anyone can help me on this topic I would appreciate it.
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fanie kleynhans
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by fanie kleynhans »

Nice shots Stefan, I can imagine how nice those 33's sound shunting those heavy loads.
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Stefan Andrzejewski
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Stefan Andrzejewski »

Thanx Fanie. The growl of those 33's are amazing
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Jez Smith
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Jez Smith »

The use of flatcars mystifies me - hard shunting should not be absorbed by a flatcar - surely all forces would be transferred to the locomotives drawbar, leading to yet another bent frame on a class 33....
I sometimes think Transnet's ground staff are buffoons, or they simply do not take any interest in their work.

Great series of pics Stefan!
Aidan McCarthy
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Aidan McCarthy »

Hi,

I also couldn't find anybody who knew what the flatcars were for. The only thing I could think was something to do with the tipplers for off loading the ore. Perhaps the diesel is too heavy to couple directly onto the wagons in the tippler.
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Martin Coombs
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Martin Coombs »

Maybe a silly question, but do the Class 33s have air brakes? If not, then there's your answer.

Back in the 1970s, before the ore line was built, the manganese trains came down to PE by way of Kimberley, De Aar, Noupoort, and the Cape Midland main line. 100 wagons at 80 tons apiece behind five or six Class 34s. When they reached the harbour at PE we had to break them up into four sections, of 2000 tons each, and shunt them round to the tippler with a 15AR coupled to several DZs to provide extra braking power.

One evening, whilst we were watering and ashing out our S2, there was a big crunching sound as the ore train grumbled past. Something like the 25th wagon had come off the track and torn up a set of points. Believe you me, even at that very slow speed it takes an awful lot to stop 6000 tons that now was no longer constrained between two parallel rails.

As a minor plus it did mean the end of our work for the night as we were trapped in the siding for the rest of the shift.

Martin
Aidan McCarthy
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Aidan McCarthy »

Hi Martin,

I think you have hit the nail on the head, as I recall the 33 class diesels do not have air brakes.
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Martin Coombs
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Martin Coombs »

Hi Aidan,

Though looking at Stefan's third picture there are certainly additional hoses beneath the coupler, other than the vac pipes higher up. Well, maybe there was a fault.

Martin
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Steve Appleton
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Steve Appleton »

Years ago, more than I care to remember, I often used to ride the diesel shunt locos around my Rhodesian home town. When shunting fuel tankers into the fuel company depots, it was necessary to have at least two or three goods wagons between the loco and the tankers. This was so that the loco did not need to enter the fuel depot gates when pushing the loaded tankers in or pulling the empties out. There was a sign prohibiting locos from passing through the gates. This probably originally applied to the old steam shunt locos, but was apparently still in force for the diesels (or was it the loco crew's cigarettes - smoking was de-rigour in those days).

On the basis of that knowledge, I prefer Aiden's theory. Namely that the diesels themselves cannot go into the tippler shed to couple the ore-wagons, especially if they are just beyond the tipper itself. Both the shock-absorbing and extra braking power theories sound too tenuous to me.

It would seem from the pics that the diesels are indeed air-brake equipped: the air hoses are there -- to have 115 fully loaded ore-wagons braked only by the two locos and two empty flat-cars would be suicidal, particularly if a coupling should part. Even if the ore-wagons were dual-braked (which I do not think they are, I see no vacuum hose on the one in the picture), 115 wagons far exceeds the maximum number permitted for vacuum braking. Not only that, but two unloaded flat-cars would add almost no braking power that is worthwhile before their wheels skidded.
Last edited by Steve Appleton on 04 Aug 2010, 12:57, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edit para 3: coupling should part.
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Derek Walker
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Derek Walker »

I know zip about this stuff, but 1 thing springs to mind. Visibility. The diesel driver can see the cars over the length of the flats, they are not up against his bonnet. But then I saw something that puzzled me, what is the tripod like object on the one flat car? Could that not have something to do with it?
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Stefan Andrzejewski
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Stefan Andrzejewski »

Derek thats what I thought. Those tripod things seem to be for the shunters. There is a stair below the tripod and they climb up there. Surely they would not build such a large structure for them to hold on. Steve all those wagons are air braked. So I assume that the 33's and 34's have all been modified for airbraking. In the this close up you can see the 33 fitted with airbrakes
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Steve Appleton
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Re: Saldanha Bay Day 2 Diesel Action

Post by Steve Appleton »

1. I also saw that tripod thing mounted on the deck in the flat-car pics and am wondering what it is for. I also like the idea that the flat-cars could be there to improve the sighting from the diesel cab.

2. I see from the close-up pic that there is not one but two air-brake pipes. Might I be correct in assuming that the Orex trains therefore use a "two pipe" air-brake system similar or identical to the one described at Railroad.net? http://www.railroad.net/articles/railfa ... /index.php . All other TFR air-brake trains that I have seen use only single pipe if I recall correctly. Is someone able to add info on this?
Two Pipe Systems

A problem with the design of the standard air brake is that it is possible to use up the air in the auxiliary reservoir more quickly than the brake pipe can recharge it. Many runaways have resulted from overuse of the air brake so that no auxiliary reservoir air is available for the much needed last application. Read Al Krug's paper North American Freight Train Brakes for a detailed description of how this happens. The problem can be overcome with a two-pipe system as shown in the simplified diagram.

This is a simplified diagram of the two-pipe air brake system.The second pipe of the two-pipe system is the main reservoir pipe. This is simply a supply pipe running the length of the train which is fed from the compressor and main reservoir. It performs no control function but it is used to overcome the problem of critical loss of pressure in the auxiliary reservoirs on each car. A connecting pipe, with a one-way valve, is provided between the main reservoir pipe and the auxiliary reservoir. The one-way valve allows air from the main reservoir pipe to top up the auxiliary reservoir. The one-way feature of the valve prevents a loss of auxiliary reservoir air if the main reservoir pressure is lost.

Another advantage of the two-pipe system is its ability to provide a quick release. Because the recharging of the auxiliaries is done by the main reservoir pipe, the brake pipe pressure increase which signals a brake release is used just to trigger the brake release on each car, instead of having to supply the auxiliaries as well.

Two pipe systems have distributors in place of triple valves. One feature of the distributor is that it is designed to restrict the brake cylinder pressure so that, while enough air is available to provide a full brake application, there isn't so much that the brake cylinder pressure causes the blocks to lock the wheels and cause a skid. This is an essential feature if the auxiliary reservoir is being topped up with main reservoir air, which is usually kept at a higher pressure than brake pipe air.

Needless to say, fitting a second pipe to every railway vehicle is an expensive business so it is always the aim of the brake equipment designer to allow backward compatibility - in much the same way as new computer programs are usually compatible with older versions. Most vehicles fitted with distributors or two-pipe systems can be operated in trains with simple one-pipe systems and triple valves, subject to the correct set-up during train formation.
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