Heading: FOTR New site, my comments!

[Steve Appleton]

Posted on behalf of Gabor Kovacs as requested:

Hi guys!

Recently joined the FOTR forum! Forgive me, but I need to start my first entry to this forum, with being a little critical about our “FOTR” new website and forum, and I need to air my view/s!

Since the launch of this FOTR dot com website I have been watching the “space”, and I must hastily add that I'm the least impressed.

I think the current website has strayed from what it was, and what it should be currently. Most of all FOTR’s website should not be testing the ability of the public and members in using the internet and their pc abilities on the FOTR website. I think the current setup is complicated to navigate and has all sorts of dribble that need not be on the home page, and the text is far too small and has very little visual impact to get readers of the website interested to browse further!

When our former Webmaster, “Train Daze - Auszi” Trevor Stats, started the FOTR website, it had at the time all the right elements that a good website should have, the marketing side of FOTR, vital to have, captive photographic pictures, sound tracks and even short movie clips! Our newsletters were even published on the net two or three months after they were release to the membership!

He certainly had his hands full with it then and even won a recognized railway internet prize for “Best Website” at the time! Well Done Trev!!!

Now that FOTR is celebrating its 21st year of operations, where has all the good internet material that once graced our FOTR dot co dot za website gone? I think some of the readers on the WWW, would like to see who we are, and how FOTR came into existence and how FOTR has developed over the years!! The good with the bad needs to be shown, so that people are made aware of what WE ALL (FOTR members), and how FOTR has thrived in the “good” days and persevered through the difficult times, and most important to show the contribution, irrespective how big or small, by all on what we as an organization have achieved to date!! It’s all history, notably the clubs’ history and people out there will possibly appreciate what we have done in the past and what we are busy with now! In my view certainly adds marketing value of a good and well laid out website!

Now our new dot com website is a pail comparison to what other SA steam clubs and organizations have on the net! A good example of what it should be is Umgeni Steam Railways’ site – have a look; http://www.umgenisteamrailway.co.za

Umgeni’s’ website is well laid out, easy on the eyes when reading, the text just at the correct size and most important, it has impact that gets the reader to browse further, with the marketing being a vital and pivotal part and everything is just a simple click away, from the home page!!!

I don’t think the Maroon Red works on the website, let alone the narrowing of the web page margins, wasting of precious advertising space, and also narrows the initial impact of a good website!!!

With regards to a forum, I think an internal FOTR related forum is a good idea, but if this website is going to host yet another, similar to the SAR_L Digest, forum, I’m going to be the first person to object to it! I believe there are far too many individuals out there, who like to promote their own ideas on how, when, who, where and when an organisation should or shouldn’t operate! These are the folk who, one seldom sees working in any organization! They are the ones who crawl out of the “sleepers” when a good show is on, and they are the ones with the loudest voice and search the lime-light, which they don’t deserve!

There are already many forums out there, which can accommodate these individuals. At FOTR we should only need a forum that promotes us as a unified, cohesive organization, outward to the rest of the world, in the best possible way!

What is the point of having a forum when a user is not able to submit a simple message let alone a good picture of a steam locomotive, ect. I find this most extremely irritating and annoying!

Steve A, we need to get this website up and going ASAP in a more user friendly option and preferably in HTML format only, where other users who operate LINEX and APPLE MAC software can also connect with the site easily! We need to get our marketing effectively back on-line, like the previous website/s with pictures and clickable URL links to our destinations and alternative venues! We need and archive section that hosts the photos, movie and sound clips of FOTR from the past and newsletter section, and a few more other tabs and most important another look for the home page, go get the initial impact across to the reader/s! “Structure” is probably a key word!

It must not be a maze, which leads the reader/s away from what potentially he or she might be interested in!

I have also noticed that on the events calendar on some of our future trips, which probably will run on a normal weekend, have been listed as a weekday train/s. This needs to be sorted urgently, plus our future trips need advertised more openly, especially when September is not too far away!

I hope this message is taken up as constructive criticism of the new FOTR dot com website, and for the record, I have offered Steve A my assistance in this regard!

Gabor

[John Ashworth]

Interesting comments. Constructive criticism is always welcome. I'll continue the conversation on a few points.

I agree fully with Gabor that we must retrieve the background material that used to be on our old website and get it on the new one. I think Mike H has it on CD? That's a priority.

Gabor is also right that many of the links don't go anywhere - we need to get on with filling in those blank spaces.

I wonder if the home page is coming out differently on different people's computer screens? On mine it is very clear, with the menu buttons along the bar at the top just below the picture of the train. I find those drop down menus clear and easy to use (apart from the problem that some of them are still empty - again we need to get all those filled as quickly as we can). I take Gabor's point about the narrowing of the margins. Maybe we could expand that and make use of the whole width of the page? As for maroon, I have no strong feelings on that - let's try another colour if people think it would be better.

The problem that some people have logging on to the forum and uploading files and photos to it is a serious teething problem which we must solve quickly. I know Steve has been working on it. I think we just have to beg those few members (who include some Board members and even our illustrious Chair) to be patient and to stay in touch with Steve and Kevin to try and work out what the problem is and how to solve it.

I use Linux and the site works perfectly for me, and I know it's the same for Mike, so I think it is compatible with different operating systems - not sure what Gabor's problem is there.

On the forum, I'm glad that Gabor sees its usefulness as an internal means of communication for FOTR members. The rest of the forum is an added bonus - some will like it, some won't, but it should get FOTR some extra visibility worldwide, which is good for us. We have also had discussions in the Board about how we do need to find ways to accommodate members and supporters who are not active in the sense of getting their hands dirty at the site every weekend - we made a deliberate decision that we do need them and we must find ways to make them feel welcome.

Those who don't like the broader forum don't have to use it, but it's worth a try. It has some differences to the sar-L. It is worldwide, not just South African rail. It does not have the option of sending e-mails as with sar-L's Yahoo group - you have to consciously decide to go and look at it, and you can choose which headings to look at. Personally I just click "View posts since last visit" every time I log on as my rail interests are broad and I like to read everything! I visit one or two other websites with the same format. http://www.railroad.net is an interesting US one - almost 8,500 members and several hundred posts each day!

Many of the frustrations with our website are because it is still a work in progress - it is unfinished. Thanks to Steve and Kevin who have devoted many hours to it. Myself and Mike H have done a little. But basically we need FOTR members and Board members to write some of the non-technical stuff to fill up those empty pages on the menu - Steve and Kevin are fully occupied with the technical stuff and can't do everything.

Thanks, Gabor, for this useful and constructive input.

[John Ashworth]

One more comment on our home page having looked at it again. Perhaps we're trying to put too much on it. The beauty of the Umgeni home page which Gabor draws our attention to is that you don't have to scroll down. Maybe we should keep our home page as clear, concise and "punchy" as possible. Some of the text could be accessed via links instead of being on the home page - maybe just titles or headings, perhaps with one sentence of explanation for each? The aim would be that the home page simply fills the screen without any need to scroll down.

[Steve Appleton]

I would like to thank Gabby for his comments. He makes some very good and interesting points. Let me try to address some of them, adding some background and rationale.

Web page size: for ease of use and to seperate content from 'form', I chose to use Joomla. There are as many templates available for Joomla as there are days in the life of an elephant. However many were rather too simplistic to support a sophisticated site and others too complex, being designed for highly specialist applications, like music sites, etc. In the end, I put a dart in the board and made a choice of template that I thought could be best adapted to the website's needs. I did however, change the colour scheme and enlarge the header image area size. At the time (and even still now), FOTR did not have an official 'corporate' colour scheme. If it had, that would have been the choice of colours on the website. Instead I chose to adapt the old SAR red and grey heritage colours, because pleasing or not, they are visually strong and kind of "belong".

So far as the width was concerned I did not, and on reflection still do not think the narrowness is an issue. First the page has to fit into 600 x 800 px screens (there are still some out there) and second, no one finds it easy to read lines of text over the whole width of a screen without jumping lines and loosing track. Simply stated, long lines are difficult to read which is one reason why newspapers and magazines rarely run text over the whole width of a page, breaking the width into columns instead. Perhaps, if I am allowed a criticsm, it is the fact that the background to the page is too monchromatically gray: great slabs of boring grey. USR has chosen a kind of patterned wallpaper. So, that is now on my todo list: fix the site's background!

So far as the other aspect of boring is concerned, too much text and too little visual upliftment: the site needs pics and diagrams. Not just pics of trains, but pics of human interest: of people and events. USR does this well, I have to agree. So again, I appeal: pics of human interest please. And another appeal, the time to sort through them, tonally correct and format them, upload them and place thm into the articles.

Text size: I am not sure how many have noticed, but the website actually allows the reader to increase and decrease the size of the text!! Those little buttons on the top right work. For instance, one increases the size of the text a little each time you click it and another decreases it.

Menus that go nowhere: Yes, we need lots more copy and other stuff to fill those gaps. A well-written club history, facts about our locos and coaches, info on the venues we service, etc. Budding authors, get to it and submit.

Public trains: In the current climate, the dates of running are uncertain which means that advertising public trains is low jkey until they are confirmed. Gabby, the traisn that are planned on weekdays in September are correct.. those days are public holidays.

Hope these help to answer your questions and address your concerns, Gabby. Thanks for your input and offer of help. Much appreciated.

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Intersting comments.

John - you are right when you say it may come out differently depending on the browser and system used. I did a few trials with friends machines and there is variability depending on the system being used. One size does not fit all - unfortunately.

The population of the webpage is an issue. Everyone needs to have look at what is missing and get writing. I have done my fair share and so has Steve - chaps, go for it. Send the completed docs to Steve for loading!

[John Ashworth]

OK, I've just written something on our "other rolling stock" and sent it to Steve for uploading. Locomotives seems to be fairly complete, coaches adequate.

I'll do the "contact us" section now.

More about our destinations and charter a special train both need filling in - Arno? There was stuff on our destinations on the recent old website which could be copied.

The archived rail tales can be populated from the old web site - Mike H has all of that in his archives. It should be easy enough to retrieve it and load it on the new website.

We should also be able to populate our on-line gallery fairly quickly from Mike's archive - there were loads of pictures from various FOTR trips and events, including re-railing Dam Rail's trolley, a New Year's Eve train at Cullinan, a wedding at Cullinan, and much more.

Mike - can you get all that stuff to Steve A as soon as possible, or get him to tell you how to upload it yourself?

Membership and how to join - who is membership secretary these days? Chris J? Can you write something?

Our vision, mission and objectives - Mike, don't we have all of that in some of the papers that you wrote motivating sponsorship, or in the old business plan, or in the new paper that Chris J wrote for Herbert? Can we upload excerpts from that quickly?

Both parts of the sponsors menu need filling in - maybe Arno or Chris K can put something together?

[Steve Appleton]

I would also like to see something more comprehensive on the club's history, stuff like looking after the Blue Train locos, etc, including old pics, etc if available.
Best person to author that is probably Nathan, but maybe Mike H can help.

[Steve Appleton]

Still waiting for a good interesting piece on the club's history for the website! Nathan, Mike H, where are you?