Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Diesel motive power and operations in Southern Africa
Mel Turner
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Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

Rumors are circulating among QR National (the privatised freight arm of the former Queensland Government Railway) employees, that the 19 GL18C 1702 Class locomotives stored at the Redbank (Brisbane) Works, have been purchased by an African operator.

At 62 tonnes these are ultra lightweight branch line units. Most are configured for driver only operation (DOO). They have been touted to overseas customers at basically scrap price since mid 2010, all are basically intact, and can be recommissioned in the short term, but most are due for rebuild. As former state owned rail in Australia is now Open Access, QRN will gas-axe these units, including the prime movers and mechanicals, if they are not exported (with a not for re-import caveat), to stop them (or components) from falling into the hands of el-cheapo competitors. http://sites.google.com/site/queensland ... 1720-class

Could one of the companies tendering for South African branch lines, be picking up cheap motive power?
Mel Turner
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

The vessel Clipper Amber due in Durban around June 20, is carrying 33 withdrawn Queensland Cape gauge locomotives.

Some numbers are known

3 x 3100 Class B-B-B electric 25kV, Comeng/Hitachi
3101/3102/3103 would appear QGR number used as builders number, 1986 build

13 x 2600 Class Goninan/GE U22C rebuilt as C22-MMi 2000/2002
2600 2500-12/83-58
2601 2500-12/83-59
2602 2500-01/84-60
2603 2500-02/84-61
2604 2500-03/84-62
2605 2500-04/84-63
2606 2500-05/84-64
2607 2500-06/84-65
2608 2500-07/84-66
2609 2500-08/84-67
2610 2500-09/84-68
2611 2500-10/84-69
2612 2500-11/84-70

3 x 2100 Class Clyde/EMD GL26C, Plus parts salvaged from 2 scrapped units (these numbers provisional)

2111D 71-722 1971
2116D 72-722 1972
2123F 72-751 1973

14 x 1720 Class Clyde GL18C, Plus parts salvaged from 4 scrapped units. Numbers for these units not confirmed.

The 1720's were transferred from storage at the Redbank (Brisbane) Works of QR National to the docks by road at night time to avoid traffic disruption. Some units are heavily faded/rusted, difficult to distinguish numbers at night.

QR National are surprisingly tight lipped and have released no information re this shipment. There is rumored to be confidentiality clauses in the sale agreement.

It would be a great help to Australian list freaks if any numbers observed can be posted, or sent via PM.

The purchaser is unknown, however it has been reported that TRE is contracted to rebuild these units at Bloemfontein and Koedoespoort.
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John Ashworth
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

From sar-L
The 33 locos imported can be basically divided into two groups, junk and goers

The 20 junkers, (14 CL18C/3 GL26C/3 B-B-B electrics) can only be viewed as
rebuild core, all came out of dead line storage, in the case of some of the
GL18C, several years storage, hence the decrepit appearance. these locos will
all require varying degrees of rebuild or refurbishment.

It would appear that these 20 are headed for RRL_Grindrod and AR&TS in Pretoria.
Both of these organisations have rebuild facilities with experienced staff.

What is not known is if RRL/AR&TS have purchased these units themselves, or are
contract rebuilding for QRN or a third party.

If anyone sights these units in Pretoria, I would appreciate a PM, as I am
attempting to update Australian lists

It has been assumed in Australia that all of the confidentiality agreements and
secrecy concern the 13 U22C/C22-MMi. These units were either in use at the
beginning of 2012, or had been mothballed, with the exception of a couple that
were sidelined requiring repair, all can be considered goers. When rebuilt in
2000/2002 they were fitted with GE BrightStar electronics. In retrospect this
conversion may not be considered overly successful, the Class has experienced
ongoing electrical and electronic problems, and was not particularly liked by
staff

Where are these destined? Let's assume that the May article in Engineering News,
had some substance. Could TRE be rebuilding or refurbishing the 2600's for the
likes of one of the NLPI/New Limpopo Bridge companies? 110 tonnes and 2200 HP
would be far more suitable for the run up through Zim than the borrowed/hired 35
Class that they are using at the moment

TRE has experience in retrofitting later generation BrightStar controls into
earlier generation GE locos, they are the logical repairer/rebuilder of the
2600's

You guys are living in "interesting times"

Monday's announcement that a Barlow/Cat JV is to recommence EMD assembly in SA
raises some interesting senarios, does the RRL-Grindrod loco building venture
have sufficient traction to survive in the face of Cat competition? SA is
probably too small to support two builders of a similar product. The collapse of
the Electro-Motive Sibanye JV will have made US businessmen cautious when
selecting SA partners
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Mel Turner
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

I will add the 1720 numbers with a word of caution

Not all numbers are from multiple sources, please advise any errors or omissions

Unofficial QRN sources claim that 18 locos were purchased in total, 4 were cannibalised and the hulks left at Redbank. I am still not sure of the numbers for these 4, 1757/1766 from a single source are the shakiest numbers in the list

14 x 1720 Class Clyde GL18C. Plus parts from 4 scrapped units
1721D 66-503 1966*
1729D 66-511 1966
1739D 67-521 1967*
1740D 67-522 1967
1742D 67-524 1967
1748D 67-562 1967*
1755D 66-635 1968
1757D 66-637 1968
1766D 69-683 1969
1767D 69-684 1969
1768D 69-685 1969*
1769D 69-686 1970*
1772D 70-689 1970
1775D 70-692 1970*

*photographed in SA

If stored at RRL-Grindrod at Pretoria, some may be visible from the road
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John Ashworth
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

From the sar-L, 28th June 2012
Ashley wrote:If anyone wants a good view of the new arrivals from QR, there are about 20 of
them standing on three lines in the old Manganese Yard next to the Dry Dock on
Maydon Wharf. They are clearly visible from Maydon Road. Unfortunately I drove
past in a rush this morning so was unable to stop and get details, but the first
loco on the closest line seemed to be numbered 2602.

There are clearly several types of locos standing there.
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John Ashworth
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

Some photos of these locos being unloaded at Durban on 23rd and 24th June 2012 can be found at http://sarconnecta.blogspot.com/2012/06 ... ng-in.html

You might have to scroll down a bit to find them
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

There's quite an ongoing conversation about these locos on the sar-L.
Les wrote:I visited African Rail & Traction Services workshop yesterday and this is the list that I received

Locos purchased by:

RRL Grinrod: 1727 + 1748 + 1767 + 1768 + 1772 + 1775 (6)

2600 + 2602 + 2603 + 2606 + 2608 + 2611 (6)

3 x 3100 Class( don’t have these numbers) (3)

Total 15


Surtees: 2601 + 2604 + 2605 + 2607 + 2609 + 2610 + 2612 (7)

Saflog : 1700 class (I have no numbers) ( - )

2100 class ( no numbers) ( - )

Total 11

I will endeavor to confirm all the numbers in the next two weeks

According to this list there is 33 locos in total
Peter wrote:To fill in the gaps, the missing locos are believed to be as follows (as per various emails from Mel Turner):

RRL Grindrod

1720 Class:

1727 is not in the provisional list of these locos provided by Mel. Perhaps an error for 1721 or 1729 (both confirmed)?

3100 Class:

These are 3101-3103 (confirmed by photos).

Saflog

Who are they? I have not heard of them.

1720 Class:

Should be eight locos from the following nine:

1721/1729/1739/1740/1742/1755/1757/1766/1769 of which only 1721/1729/1769 are confirmed by photographs. The additional loco is due to 1727 mentioned above.

2100 Class:

2111/2116/2123 of which only 2111 has been confirmed by photographs.
I think that I put a rider on the list that some numbers had not been confirmed from multiple sources.

The 2600 consist of the entire 13 in the class.

3100's well known, photographed in Brisbane moving to wharf, and in Durban.

2111 is the only unit photographed in Durban. Reputedly 5 were purchased, with 2
stripped for parts at Redbank, with the hulks left to be cut up. This Class has
a lightweight frame with a unique bogie suspension arrangement (to keep weight
under 96 tonnes). Numbers for the two cannibalised examples not known.

The 1720 were moved from Redbank to the wharf by road at night (to avoid road
congestion), only have a couple of photos from Fisherman Islands (1755D and
1772D). Reputedly 18 were purchased, 4 cannibalised at Redbank, 14 Shipped. When
we know the numbers of these 4 locos (or the numbers for SAFLog) we will be able
to correct the list. This list was "reversed engineered" from a late 2011 list
of known withdrawn "D's" at Redbank (with later amendments), with transit
sightings from 3 different Australian groups. It would appear that they had a
pool of 21 withdrawn units to choose from

SAFLog (http://www.saflog.co.za/) is another of Ted Zulu's enterprises, These
locos may be stacked at RRL Grindrod's Pretoria Works, as they will probably be
responsible for the rebuild or refurbishment. Can anyone confirm?
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Kevin Wilson-Smith

Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Kevin Wilson-Smith »

Thanks Grant. Interesting.

And Mel - thanks for starting this thread. An intriguing topic!
Mel Turner
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

Below list probably correct, please PM any errors or omissions

The 3 3100 Class electrics confirmed from photos.
2600, there were only 13 in the Class, and 13 were shipped
2100 Class, 2111D confirmed from photos in SA, however would like SA sightings/photos of the other 2. Of the 2 left at Redbank, 2121 not confirmed from a second source.
1720 Class ties in with known locos withdrawn/stored at Redbank

QRN have not acknowledged any sale, even though the units were transported unwrapped from the Redbank works to the Fisherman Islands wharf.


3 x 3100 Class B-B-B electric 25kV, Comeng/Hitachi
3101*/3102*/3103* would appear QGR number used as builders number, 1986 build

13 x 2600 Class Goninan/GE U22C rebuilt as C22-MMi 2000/2002
2600 2500-12/83-58
2601 2500-12/83-59
2602 2500-01/84-60
2603 2500-02/84-61
2604 2500-03/84-62
2605 2500-04/84-63
2606 2500-05/84-64
2607 2500-06/84-65
2608 2500-07/84-66
2609 2500-08/84-67
2610 2500-09/84-68
2611 2500-10/84-69
2612 2500-11/84-70

3 x 2100 Class Clyde/EMD GL26C. Plus parts from 2 scrapped units
2111D 71-722 1971*
2116D 72-722 1972
2123F 72-751 1973
Plus 2 units stripped of parts and hulks left at Redbank
2102H 70-713 1971
2121F 72-749 1972

14 x 1720 Class Clyde GL18C. Plus parts from 4 scrapped units
1721D 66-503 1966*
1729D 66-511 1966*
1739D 67-521 1967
1740D 67-522 1967
1742D 67-524 1967
1748D 67-562 1967*
1755D 66-635 1968*
1757D 66-637 1968
1766D 69-683 1969
1767D 69-684 1969
1768D 69-685 1969*
1769D 69-686 1970*
1772D 70-689 1970*
1775D 70-692 1970*
Plus 4 units stripped of parts and hulks left at Redbank
1722D 66-504 1966
1727D 66-509 1966
1747D 67-561 1967
1750D 67-564 1968

*Photo Fisherman Islands/South Africa

1727D has been reported at Pretoria, there have been multiple sightings of this unit awaiting the gasaxe at Redbank.
Any PM's of numbers stored at RRL Pretoria would be appreciated.

I have a gut feeling that we are looking at two tranches of QRN locos for SA.

The recent sale of the 39 locos to RRL Grindrod/SAFLog, and AR&TS (Surtees) represents tranche one.

If and when QRN signs a binding schedule of agreements with Transnet, there will be a second tranche of mainly 2150/2170/2250 Class (GL26C) for TRE to rebuild for sale in Africa, as per the reports in South African business newspapers and journals.
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

From the sar-L today:
Two or more tranches of Queensland locomotives for South Africa?

Tranche one appears to be a group purchase by RRL Grindrod, SAFLog, and AR&TS.

There are ongoing reports in Australia that QRN and Transnet are in ongoing
negotiation which should result in a "binding schedule for agreements in
relation to TRE supplying new heavy-haul locomotives to QR National and the two
companies participating in a technology and skills transfer program. There might
also be the possibility of TRE refurbishing withdrawn QR National locomotives
for sale to African countries needing a low-cost option to boost their rail
capacity."

The May articles in BusinessDay and Engineering News have some substance.

In Queensland QRN appears to be intent on withdrawing from low profit operations
and concentrating on high margin block mineral haulage plus intermodal on the
north-south (Cairns-Brisbane) corridor post 2013. QRN have apparently told the
Queensland Government that they will no longer tender to supply locos for
Government subsidised services, or hook and pull for the Government passenger
network.

This will mean that there will be a considerable withdrawal of GL22C and GL26C
locos, as well as some GT22LC rebuilds. QRN will want to move the withdrawn
locomotives offshore to prevent them falling into the hands of potential
competitors, and used to undercut freight rates on the open network track. This
move will force any incoming provider looking to operate on the Queensland Cape
gauge network, into sourcing their locomotives on the international market, and
increase potential competitors costs.

It is apparent that there has been confusion, and the locomotives that arrived
in Durban on 22 June were initially assumed to be part of the Transnet/QRN
negotiations.

So there is the possibility of further shipments in the future
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John Ashworth
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

QUEENSLAND & TRANSNET

Railways Africa On July 17, 2012 In South Africa

Mid-year media stories suggested that withdrawn locos from Queensland which had arrived in South Africa were to be refurbished by Transnet Rail Engineering (TRE) for resale to other countries in Africa. Difficulty in obtaining factual information in Australia was blamed on reluctance by Queensland Rail (QR) to furnish details. It emerged eventually that the locos unloaded at Durban were destined not for TRE but for three private establishments in South Africa. The fact that the 1,067mm gauge is common to both QR and South Africa has obvious significance.

It is believed that TRE and QR are in ongoing negotiations and that a second shipment of withdrawn locos – this time destined for TRE – may be expected in the not too distant future. QR is reportedly interested in acquiring new motive power built by TRE. Speculation suggests that QR wants its withdrawn locos out of Australia to prevent their being acquired by potential competitors.
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Mel Turner
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

John Ashworth wrote:QUEENSLAND & TRANSNET

Railways Africa On July 17, 2012 In South Africa

Mid-year media stories suggested that withdrawn locos from Queensland which had arrived in South Africa were to be refurbished by Transnet Rail Engineering (TRE) for resale to other countries in Africa. Difficulty in obtaining factual information in Australia was blamed on reluctance by Queensland Rail (QR) to furnish details. It emerged eventually that the locos unloaded at Durban were destined not for TRE but for three private establishments in South Africa. The fact that the 1,067mm gauge is common to both QR and South Africa has obvious significance.

It is believed that TRE and QR are in ongoing negotiations and that a second shipment of withdrawn locos – this time destined for TRE – may be expected in the not too distant future. QR is reportedly interested in acquiring new motive power built by TRE. Speculation suggests that QR wants its withdrawn locos out of Australia to prevent their being acquired by potential competitors.
Bloody Rail Link Communications is at it again.

I received an email from an Australian journo yesterday asking "Wow! Did you get a copywriter's fee? :)"

After some discussion between contacts in South Africa and Australia we set them up with a rather dubious post on sar-L (Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:00 am) to see if it was picked up as news, and they bit.

Using railfan groups is a rather lazy way to source copy.
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by John Ashworth »

More from sar-L: Mel, I hope it's not too wide of the mark this time!
Les wrote:I have just been to RRL Grinrod & A.R.& T.S(Surtees)

The U22C locos arrived late yesterday & today under the own power.(18 June) Attached are photos of most of them. I was unable to take any photos of the 1700 class, but can confirm the numbers. I confirmed the following:

Grinrod:

1755 + 1767 + 1772 + 1748 + 1777 + 1768

2600 + 2602 + 2603 + 2606 + 2608 + 2611

A R & T S:

2601 + 2604 + 2605 + 2607 + 2609 + 2610 + 2612

The 1700 class were delivered by road, the 2600 class by rail. Each company drove their own locos in two batches, 5 from Grinrod & 4 from AR&TS under their own power towing the balance. The QR locos couplers are 770 mm from rail, whereas SA couplers are 855 mm. Does anyone know if QR altered these couplers for any other customer? I was asked to enquire how this was altered if they might have changed the height
Les wrote:The Grinrod loco list I have just sent out had a small slip of the finger; there is no 1777 the correct number is 1775
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Mel Turner
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Re: Queensland GL18C heading for Africa?

Post by Mel Turner »

Not really

Les's initial post listed 1748 + 1727 + 1764 + 1768 + 1772 + 1775 (Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:08 pm)

Now saying (amended) 1748 + 1755 + 1764 + 1768 + 1772 + 1775

We knew that 1727 in the first post was suspect, as this unit was left behind at Redbank

So 1727 was a typo for 1755 in the initial post?
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