Millsite scrapping

[John Ashworth]

There's a lot of information on sar-L about scrapping of locomotives currently in progress at Millsite.

Lots of questions as to whether or not a public tender was issued, and some surprise given recent comments by the chair of HRASA (eg when he spoke at the FOTR AGM in March 2008) which led many to believe that the future of most of these locomotives was secure.

FOTR members have visited Millsite this week and witnessed for themselves what is going on there.

[Dylan Knott]

Indeed, tragic state of affairs. I cannot seem to locate the tender for these locomotives. Certainly didn't expect the class 23 to be included.

And what is HRASA's response?

[Nathan Berelowitz]

The state of stuff at Millsite is that the compound containing the museu, locos is safe at present but will have to be moved from there within a certain time frame. Most of the stuff is probably immovable, and costly to move, but if we could get p[ermission to remove spares off them and the tons of other stuff laying about, that will be a great start. The locos that are unmovable and really trashed, in my opinion, should be cut and the money from that go towards restoration of those that can be saved. Bear in mind, all we can do here is rant and rave, but end of the day, it will be funding that will save what we so dearly love. Some info here obtained from a cell call to Mark R.

[Dylan Knott]

Nathan, support your theory 100%

There are a few gems lying around there that are not in the compound. As to all the items lying inbetween the locos, will gladly take the lot.

No excuses forthcoming as to why a class 23 was scrapped?

[Dylan Knott]

So lets determine what is currently within the compound and standing around outside? This forum is the perfect vehicle for this.

The following are supposed to be at the coalstage line and are probably long gone by now:

23 3311
GMAM 4086 (no boiler and cab shell only)
15F no ID but with tender 3157.
15F 2904
15CA 2808
GMAM 4061 (no cab, no rear unit)
2 gutted EMU trailers.
EMU 9195
25NC 3414
15CA 2849
15CA ?
15F 2906
15F 2921
15F 2922
15F 3129 (Smashed cab)
23 3286
2 x unidentified 15F's.
GEA 4022
Small 10 ton steam crane
wickham trolley
boiler
firebox
signal frames
three tenders

That nothing was made available for preservation is tragic.

[John Ashworth]

More from the sar-L.

A poster with the handle "randfontein2003" siging himself as "Les. (The other one)" writes on 17th May:

Hi Dylan & listees,

Transnet Freight Rail has nearly 300 odd steam locomotives in their
possession. TFR are willing to donate these to the various clubs,
but who can accomodate so many locomotives? (not forgetting the cost
to move the locomotives in the first instance)Also to be considered
is how many 15F's can you save? Sad as it may be, these surplus
locomotives are going to be cut up for scrap

TFR are in a "clean up" phase hence the cutting of some locomotives
at Millsite. It would appear that the "Heritage" locomotives are
relatively "safe" at this time.

It is to be noted that HRASA are in the fore-front of the battle to
save what they can. Reefsteamers will be going to Millsite tomorrow
to Indentify what locomotives, spares, wheels etc they intend re-
locating to Germiston.

I shall keep the list up-dated as to developments.

Regards,

Les. (The other one)

Our own inimitable Nathan Berelowitz replies:

Glad to see that people are going out to save stuff. At least they may have
been informed by a higher body to do so, as I don't think any of the other
clubs or groups have been asked to perform such critical duties. Thank you
Les, as well, for informing us of the HRASA decision, and welcome to the
board. Please supply us all with the lack of info we have been so starved to
hear, perhaps now the plight of the remaining locos can be solved. Would you
be able to arrange permission for the clubs to go and remove/collect spares
and artifacts etc, with proper supervision and lists being kept, so that
they will be available in the future, before the often accidental scrapping
of the compound locos begins, by the cutters, who usually can't tell one
dumped loco from another. Suggestion to the main railway body you probably
will have to deal with, could be, that the clubs could be given free rail
access to collect and tow away the locos that could be moved and are
worthwhile saving, the rest, dear readers, will have to go. As much as we
love them all, it is like watching an old person suffering and just going
down, before the final salvation of death, puts them out of misery. So lets
get the saveable items travelworthy, lets get them towed by a clubs
locomotive/s to a safe premise ( one or other club), and the cut up remains
of the rest, the profits made, can be put into the HRASA preservation trust
account, to enable work to be carried out on their possible restoration . A
very good suggestion.

Perhaps a HRASA called, urgent meeting, to all clubs in the land and steam
operators, is top priority and then all concerned, can mobilize and get some
definite action happening. Perhaps more of the" few can do more for the
many". Inthedarktrainman

"In the dark" sums it up. I hear many within FOTR asking why such an active club as FOTR, based so close to Millsite, only found out about this by chance and was not asked to support the heritage movement by joining with Reefsteamers and others to save even more "locomotives, spares, wheels etc".

[Dylan Knott]

Down here in Cape Town, no one knew!

What can we do from here, nothing as it appears.

I know we can't save them all but it would be nice for the next generation to have something to look at. Follow Noah's prinicple of two each and we have chance. Certainly, don't think anything from Millsite will run again but static is fine.

[Dylan Knott]

Is it only clubs who can receive locos as donations? What about private individuals?

[Chris Janisch]

Following reports from various players in the heritage industry that scrapping was underway at Millsite, I decided to go and see for myself on Friday 16 May. Having been told by the HRASA chairman that Millsite was safe for the meantime, the news came as a shock. Together with fellow FOTR member Gabor Kovacs we entered the shed and went down to the coalstage area. Here we found the remains of some GMAs, 15Fs and a 23 alongside empty gas bottles. Nearer the coalstage we found the Reclam scappers in action, busy with 15F 2921 and 25NC 3414. We spoke to the foreman who said that they have 6000 tons to scrap- wagons and other rolling stock included. They began at the end of April. Terrible scenes of decay and destruction greeted us. Shelled and gutted locos and tenders. Boiler lying on its side. Small steam crane with bell couplers hacked off. Burned out coach under a rotten water column. Locos recorded here were:
15F 2906/2921/2922/2975/2987, 15CA 2849 plus another unnumbered CA boiler no.8440, 23 3286, 25NC 3414.
It appears that the 2 incomplete GMAs, 23 3311, 15CA 2808 and 2 15Fs are already cut.
We then went up to the shed lines and found the following locos here:
15CAs 2039/2040/2041/2077/2803/2825/2833, 15Fs 2902(Sanrasm)/2904/2908/2913/2919/2934/3075/3098, 14CRB 1771, a 3R.
These all seem in poor condition although many would be good sources of spares.
The museum compound was then done. Piles of burned out wreckage and rubble, white metal bearings stolen, burned out coaches, spares and chimneys scattered around, van Schoor machines and whistle boards returning to nature. What can one say.
All the national collection was here- Dylan can give the numbers. Also 15CAs 2836/2840/2820, 15Fs 2940/2946/3001/3079. FOTR requested 15A 1791 was found and photted- perhaps one day she will return to the rails.
Near the ashpits were 10C 776, the GM and GE Garratts.
The vast sheds which once housed the preserved steamers were largely empty, save for a few diesels. Such huge potential as a steam centre, all thrown away when THF relocated to Cape Town.
The running shed was fairly busy with numerous 34s throbbing away, including one in old SAR livery.
So sad to see a once-busy steam center in absolute decay. There will now be a rush to save and procure what we can before all is lost. As we drove off, all that remained was to report and publish the state of matters so that you, the enthusiaist public, knows what is going on.

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Having been tipped off by Chris, I went out early this morning. Took a lot of photos, which I will post once I have processed them.

The notes I made match Chris's - I have pics to back up a lot of his stuff.

Spoke to staff - scrapping commenced at the end of April. They were unable to say how many, but said "lots" - they showed me a large area which had already been cleared. They said that all the engines had come from the coal stage area, both sides. Who knows how many - 6+????? I do not think "lots" is much more. Maybe someone can do a recon based on Chris's notes.

They walked me round and showed me tons of wheels newly cut and loaded to go, along with other stuff in area where the scrappers are working.

They reckoned that the scrappers (when they were working) were fast - I asked how long it would take to clear the coal stage area - they said at the same rate 3 months maybe.

Will put the pics on due course.

Would be nice to save some stuff - the Garratt by the coal stage would make a nice static exhibit, but they have already started to dismantle this in places by the looks of things - tools there and fittings in a pile.

[Dylan Knott]

So it looks like the GEA is also going? Did you take a photo of this as well.
Is that garrat marked with an "S" or an "R" cause if its the latter its supposed to be safe?!!
Contacts for the scrappers?

[John Ashworth]

Chris Janisch's photos of this sad event are posted at http://www.friendsoftherail.com/phpBB2/ ... .php?f=139

Keep checking back as we'll be posting more photos by Chris and others.

[John Ashworth]

There's also some information which might be relevant on another thread - see http://www.friendsoftherail.com/phpBB2/ ... 5900#p5900

[Nathan Berelowitz]

I have mede the comment already, but for this page I say, lets be given official permission by the newly appointed trustees of the national collection, combined clubs/interested preservationists then go to Millsite and mark with paint, the selected items for saving, and record in writing the list of such items and then set a date to start travelworthying the saveable/removable items. Trucks can be hired to load the artifacts and remove them to a safe haven to be decided upon, whilst rolling stock can be moved to the nearest safe place be it in Pretoria or Germiston. Proceeds from the sale of the rest for scrapping will go to the appointed trustees of the collection, who will then be able to utilise that money towards future restoration or towards the cost of hiring vehicles etc to move the collection.

Railways , as a final farewell gesture to their so called eyesore, should be approached by the collections trustees to give free access to their rails and system, so as to enable the historic items to be relocated to the above mentioned places in Gauteng province. The local club operators, I am sure, will gladly offer their services for no charge whatsoever, and the voices of preservationists out there in the country can be harnessed to put their vocal abilities into workable, possibly financial abilities, to ensure, that what is left, will be saved, and they toom will have had a physical part of being involved in doing so. The hard core few in this land are already committed to taking on Millsite, but it must be done in a legitimate open way.

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Dylan - 4022 was the GEA I refer to. Had an R. See Chris's photos. I went up to have a "climb" around as I like Garratts and found on the one side some hand tools and a pile of loose fittings right next to the engine - all small things, like a small footladder and some of the "mesh lids" from the Garratt etc. I don not think they were being stored!