Dining Train Proposal

[Rob Jamieson]

I'm not a member of FOTR but just a member of the forums. I had an idea that the FOTR might consider in order to generate funds for their activities.

I'm sure there are many people who can remeber the dining car service on the old SAR mainline passenger trains in the 70's and early 80's where the food was excellent, the dinning cars were well appointed and the staff helpfull and tidy. Maybe it would feasible for FOTR to investigate introducing a lunch or dinner train trip of +/- 1-2 hours around Pretoria where guests are dined on a train in an old restored dining car with a lounge car or two attached wherein guests can relax before or after the meal. I do not know if FOTR has such rolling stock available, but if not, maybe one could be hired, chartered or loaned from TFR, Prasa or even Rovos Rail. Corporate sponsors eg. Woolies or other catering companies may be interested in such idea and if feasible, it could be run once a month to start with and test the market. It may also be aimed at corporates for special occasions or year end functions.

[Kevin Wilson-Smith]

Thank you for the suggestion!

Catered trains are discussed by the Board from time to time and your suggestion highlights the need for us to look at this aspect again.

Many thanks!

[Rob Jamieson]

My pleasure. I suppose the key issue here would be viability and would there be sufficient demand for such an undertaking. I'm no expert in such matters so I'd rather leave those types of dicisions to those with the knowledge in such matters. It's great to see the number of railway enthusiasts on this forum and at FOTR as well as the other local railway preservation organisations and am convinced that the time and effort many of the members put in will be rewarded and appreciated by the generations to come.

[John Ashworth]

Thanks, Rob. As Kevin says, it has been discussed in the past. We are definitely interested. Main problem at the moment is getting the right vehicles. We have our regional manager's saloon, which includes a small kitchen, bit no other suitable vehicles yet. It's possible that the last of our suburban coaches to be restored will be an open or semi-open coach where tables could be set up, but the ideal thing would be to have a dedicated dining car. I hope we will be able to continue to explore possibilities.

[Dylan Knott]

A suburban can be converted into a dining car. Otherwise a steel sleeper is the next best thing.
We considered this for the Elgin operation.
Cannot think of any Dining Cars in your neck of the woods unless you can liberate one from SANRASM?

[Steve Appleton]

Rob, as John says, a great idea and one we had considered on many occasions. Besides the practical issues relating to acquiring, converting or building a dining car, there is the question of the operating economics. Diners and their tables take up lots of space "per capita" and to that you must add the space required for a modest kitchen or serving area of some sort. This means that before you even add a charge for the food, the fares have to be very much higher than for a normal passenger.

In fact we even regularly debate the economics of running our bar/lounge coach, knowing that it costs more to take along on each trip than it earns. To date, we have always regarded that coach as a facility that adds value to the passengers' trips and is expected by them. So, as such, it is used a marketing draw-card to get bums on seats. In effect, each passenger who buys a seat subisdises the lounge coach whether he uses it or not. On that note, I hear that Reefsteamers is considering dropping its catering coach for similar cost:earnings reasons.

Nonetheless, I had recently discussed with a few colleagues the idea of converting two of the old 3rd class mainline sitters that we had parked at Hercules into a high-class bar-lounge and kitchen-dining combination. The blue-sky thoughts had contained the idea of stripping out the seats and Formica interiors, re-panelling in wood and even installing false clerestory ceilings. This would mainly enable us to fill a gap in the corporate charter market. It would have been unlikely that these coaches could be economically run on most scheduled Cullinan or Tshwane trains. So, Dylan, great minds do think alike!

Well... with the unfortunate fire at Hermanstad, all that has gone up in smoke now! Perhaps just as well. It most likely would have been an economic pie in the sky anyway.

[Rob Jamieson]

Thanks for the replies chaps. The cost factors at present seem to outweigh the benefits but finding a corporate sponsor or partner when a kitchen and dining car someday become available could be a possibility. I was thinking more in the line of a dedicated resturant train, not the Cullinan and Tshwane Express trains. It need not even be a FOTR owned train, it could belong to some other corporate concern, but operated and maintained on their behalf by FOTR.

[Derek Walker]

Reefteamers has the catering car Kango that they use on the Magalies trips, but they are now taking it off the trains because the design causes bottlenecks. There are 2 of them standing at Germiston derelict if Fotr would want to grab for refurbishing. I have no idea who they belong to.
http://www.allatsea.co.za/trains/images ... lies17.jpg
http://www.allatsea.co.za/trains/refreshment.htm

sanrasm has 2 diners rotting away, but you will never be able to get those.

[Dylan Knott]

4 derelict diners down here and 2 catering cars!
Nice wooden diner outside George doing nothing!

[John Ashworth]

I believe there's also a wooden-bodied diner at Pecanwood belonging to Damrail. We had a look at it once. There are safety issues using wooden-bodied stock on the main line, as it is not very crash resistant, but it's a possibility.

We still have some derelict main line sitter coaches at CPK which didn't get burnt, so Steve's idea of converting them is still possible.

In the short-term it's not feasible because we have a lot of other priorities for using what little funds we have, regardless of whether this would earn revenue or not. These include moving to Hermanstad, repairing 3117, restoring 2850, restoring the two remaining suburban coaches which can quickly earn revenue and which are needed for our overcrowded trains, maintaining 3664 and 2650, etc.

However the idea of getting a corporate sponsor, or even having someone else own the train, is something that Arno has been exploring, I believe.

[Stefan Andrzejewski]

In Cape Town in the early 90's we had the Roving Diner. It was a Kitchen car two Diners, Two Lounge Cars a Brake van a passenger and a Generator car that took you on steam trips to places like Malmesbury, Franschoek, Worcester and other places. We would leave CT at 6pm and return at 11. It was superb.

[Luca Lategan]

YEAH! Take along the three/four coaches with a 10C / 5BR / 5R / 6th class at the front and you have a winner!